Interviewer

Good afternoon. Perhaps I could start by asking your name.

Phil Palfrey

It’s Phil Palfrey.

Interviewer

And Phil, how old are you?

Phil Palfrey

I’m 72, 73 later this year

Interviewer

Excellent. And what friends group are we talking about today?

Phil Palfrey

League of Friends, Bridgnorth Hospital.

Interviewer

So Phil, have you always been a Bridgnorth man?

Phil Palfrey

No I only moved here just over four years ago. My wife, and I both retired, and decided to move closer to the countryside because my wife Julie, was born in Wiltshire, very much a country girl. And that was the starting point, really.

Interviewer

So where did you live before?

Phil Palfrey

Stourbridge.  Again, I’m  not Stourbridge born and bred. I’m a Birmingham lad originally, albeit many, many years ago, but moved away when I first got married. Had children. So I’ve lived in two or three towns, but Stourbridge we lived in for about 25, 26 years before moving here.

Interviewer

And what did you do for a career?

Phil Palfrey

Very mixed. I’m a trained engineer.  Direct from school, I served an apprenticeship, but I then moved away from that, and went into Product Design, finishing with Project Management for a very large American organisation, specialising in IT.  But my role was very much showing people how to use the new systems that were being incorporated,  and how to use the machine that’s suddenly been put in front of them.

Interviewer

And in your early life or while you were working, did you volunteer at anything?

Phil Palfrey

Volunteering is probably the wrong phrase, but because I’m a golfer, I was Seniors Vice Captain, and Seniors Captain for five years, so not really volunteering.

Interviewer

So you had a history of taking on additional responsibilities?

Phil Palfrey

Yes, all the way through.

Interviewer

Okay. So you move here, and what gets you involved with the hospital?

Phil Palfrey

My wife. Nice and simple. She became a volunteer here, and also at the local church, very much to meet new people. We’ve moved to a new town 20 miles from where we used to live. We don’t know anybody. We like to think we’re nice people, and we can make friends easily, but that’s how she got involved here. And sadly, the previous Treasurer had been taken poorly, and my wife said to the other volunteers, “oh, my husband’s good with numbers, he might be able to help.”  So I met the Chair, and Secretary, and volunteered to help as a temporary, hopefully to help to get things set up or at least looking after the money in a controlled fashion. That was three years ago.

Interviewer

So they sort of lured you in on the temporary basis?

Phil Palfrey

In a nice way. Yes.

Interviewer

And the escape route hasn’t become apparent yet?

Phil Palfrey

I do joke with them and say “I’m finishing next week,” and they just laugh. So they’re obviously not taking me very seriously. I would like to hand it on. I think I’ve got to that stage, but I’m certainly not chomping at the bit to hand it on. I’m quite happy with what we’re doing. I do think we as a group of people can do so much more, and that’s probably why I’m not chomping at the bit to walk away.

Interviewer

So when you arrived, what was the role of the Treasurer? What did the Treasurer actually physically do? Was it just honorary or did you actually have to do bookkeeping or whatever? How did it work?

Phil Palfrey

What the previous chap did was very much old school, so I understand.  Always bearing in mind he was very unwell, so I wasn’t going to bother him. That was not fair. The takings that are from the coffee shop, the donations or what have you, that’s in the bank. There was very little record of all of that. I’m sure there was, but there wasn’t to be handed over. So I very much stepped in to say, well, let’s get this formalised. So that was my starting point. I was happy to do that because I liked spreadsheets. I ran my own business for a little while before retiring, so I felt comfortable I could do that, and show everybody, this is what we’ve had, this is where it’s come from, and this amount is in the bank. That was my starting point.

Interviewer

So you’ve set up Excel spreadsheets or something like that to do it?

Phil Palfrey

Yes.

Interviewer

But I’m impressed to hear that we’re not still on big double analysis sheets, and hand entries.

Phil Palfrey

No, it is all now on a computer,

Interviewer

But interestingly, equally not moved to a bookkeeping package yet.

Phil Palfrey

No. I think the reason is,  I’ve worked with bookkeeping packages when I had my own business,  and understand some of them, and it is changing more, and more obviously, with online tax systems, et cetera. But the type of money that we handle, and wherever it comes from, is very, very simplistic. We have no tax implications. We have two bank accounts which are easily controlled, and that’s why I’m quite happy doing that. If at some point the trustees want to change it, that’s not a problem. Today I don’t think it’s necessary, but that’s my personal opinion.

Interviewer

I’m just interested because  I think people sometimes think, you’ve got a coffee shop, you’ve probably got some legacy income,  potentially you’ve got a bit of fundraising that actually it might be quite a complicated task to be the Treasurer of a League of Friends.

Phil Palfrey

I think like anything if you’re happy with Excel or similar systems, and you can create your own level of coding so you can subdivide or report. Whichever way you want to phrase it, it’s not complicated. Money is very, very easy to over complicate.  The inland Revenue do a great job of that, in my opinion. If you can come up with, 10, 20 codes, you can then subdivide and say, well, that’s where that amount of money is coming from, legacy or charity boxes or wherever you can break down the expenditure of your coffee shop. That’s all that’s needed. It’s a comfort factor for me. The trustees have to be happy, and the volunteers indeed have to be happy that the money that’s coming in is still all there, and you can justify that. Now, whether that’s me being a little bit naive or simplifying things, but that’s my approach.

Interviewer

And do you produce a year end accounts?

Phil Palfrey

Do I produce the accounts? No.  We have independent accountants that verify the audit, and produce the final set of accounts, which we send off to the Charity Commission at the end of the day. I hand over the complete spreadsheets. I don’t even prep them. I hand over the whole spreadsheet, and then they break it down

Interviewer

And is that a proper audit or is that an independent exam? So is your  turn over half a million?

Phil Palfrey

Independent. I had to think how that was phrased in the report then, but no, it’s not an audit. It actually comes out as unaudited, doesn’t it?

Interviewer

Yes, again I think that if people are new to this, they don’t necessarily understand the difference between the rigors of a full audit, and an independent exam,  and usually independent exams are quite helpful in my experience at helping you get things tidy if they’re not quite right.

Phil Palfrey

No, absolutely. Because not only do I hand over the spreadsheet, I’m quite happy, again, just me, the way my character is, I’ve got a folder for all the bank statements. I’ve got a folder for all income. I’ve got a folder for all outgoing. They get the lot. How much they look into that I’d like to think is extremely thoroughly. Because they do come up occasionally, and say, “this doesn’t tally.” Which is great because I can then go, and say, “ah, that’s recorded against that name because that was expenditure repaid back,” which is lovely because I feel comfortable I can answer all the questions.

Interviewer

Some people are quite nervous about audit or independent exam, but actually it does help clarify things sometimes on the way through, which is really helpful I think.

Phil Palfrey

Definitely, definitely.

Interviewer

Particularly  if they’re going to  go into a set of figures that other people are going to  scrutinise, they may ask a question which you could have found yourself having to answer in a meeting.

Phil Palfrey

Absolutely. That happened quite recently at a trustees meeting.  Our ex local mayor,  she now sits with us, not as a trustee, but in an advisory role. And at the end of last year, I reported additional coffee shop expenditure for want of a better expression. And she asked a very simple question, “what’s in there?” Well, that was great because I could say, “well, that’s covered by the till expenditure or the insurance or what have you.” And it opened up with the questions from the other trustees, which is lovely. You want that. I try desperately to get the other trustees to ask me questions. I’m disappointed they don’t ask more, but in fairness, age group has got something to do with that.  Lack of confidence with money. That’s the big thing. I think with a lot of smaller charities.

Interviewer

Certainly my experience is that the Treasurer is often the key person who understands what’s going on with the money. Everybody else is only really interested in how much money we’ve got, and what we’re going spend it on.

Phil Palfrey

Yes, totally agree. My background is not financial.  I’ve learned finance because of my own business having to do it myself. So I’m very much self-taught. And I did feel after about 18 months, I’m not a Treasurer, am I the right man for the job? I don’t feel that now because of the way we’re set up, the trustees, the volunteers. If it became a lot more involved, I think I would encourage someone with more experience to A –  come and help or B – to come and take over. At the moment, I don’t feel that’s necessary.

Interviewer

And it’s interesting because the Charity Commission guidance is very clear that a Treasurer has no more responsibility for finance than any other trustee. Realistically.  And  getting other trustees interested or bringing other people on with financial acumen is often an area where friends groups lack. So we’ve explored that quite a lot. What else do they get you to do as, as being part of a trustee or being a volunteer even?

Phil Palfrey

I steered myself into other things, if I’m really honest. Coffee shop manageress,  I have to say she is scared of technology, hates the thought of the till or anything like that. Doesn’t do email, doesn’t want to do email, which is fine. So I voluntarily, help,  and support her in all of that. No big deal to me. I do find myself therefore getting embroiled  an awful lot in other coffee shop issues. I don’t find it’s a problem. Firstly, because we get on extremely well and secondly I can do it. So I see that as me being more of a volunteer, and not just wearing a Treasurer’s hat, which I enjoy,

Interviewer

But I’m thinking that even in your golf days, you took on additional responsibilities, you know, you’ve always been happy to step up, and help out.  So what do you enjoy most about being involved with the League of Friends here?

Phil Palfrey

People interaction is probably the biggest thing I enjoy. I love spreadsheets. I can play for hours. I do our home accounts, for want of a better expression. My wife Julie has nothing to do with this. Purely and simply because she doesn’t have an interest. I have documented everything, God forbid one day when I’m not around whether she’s fine or not, that’s me. I’m a helper, I think.  I think that’s the way I would describe my character, and more so now in senior years.

Interviewer

And as a trustee, what are you most proud of about Bridgnorth League of Friends?

Phil Palfrey

I think the community giving, not necessarily money, but giving for the hospital. The hospital is very important. As a trustee I’d happily wear the badge that I belong here. I know that might sound a silly answer, but that’s the way I feel. We wanted to get involved with things around Bridgnorth. I looked at a number of things, and I live very close to the local Nature Reserve, and I’ve got to know one or two people there. Now, it’s not my bag, but I’d quite happily go. Well, last weekend we had the Flying Scotsman go through town, and I helped out on car park duties just because I can, because I live very close to it. So things like that is the community thing that Bridgnorth is lovely for before being a trustee, I feel as though I belong. I really think that would be a proper answer.

Interviewer

This is your place.

Phil Palfrey

Yes.  Very much so.

Interviewer

Excellent. Now, when you knew you were going to be speaking to me today. Was there anything you wanted to tell me you haven’t had the chance to say yet?

Phil Palfrey

Not off the top of my head. When we first met, which is now two years ago almost in a completely different environment, I wanted to know more about Attend. That’s my character.  Now. I’ve made it my mission to find out more by talking to the Secretary, by talking to the Chair. But apart from that I don’t think so. And I’ve been quite looking forward to it. I was down to meet you last time. We ran out of time collectively, so I’m quite happy for the opportunity today.