Interviewer

So, could I start by asking your name?

Pauline Smith

Pauline Smith.

Interviewer

And Pauline, how old are you?

Pauline Smith

80.

Interviewer

Looking good for it, I have to say.

Pauline Smith

I was 80 on Saturday.

Interviewer

Oh were you? Happy birthday. And could I ask what charity we are talking about today?

Pauline Smith

Well, if I talk about BOPH, I mean you know about BOPH, but equally I would like to talk about the Lady McAdden

Interviewer

Okay. Absolutely.

Pauline Smith

Because I do that as well.

Interviewer

No, it’s all part of your story. And your story is what matters. So, I’ve already picked up in the introductory bit that you are London born and bred. Is that right?

Pauline Smith

Yes.

Interviewer

So whereabouts in London are you from?

Pauline Smith

East London, Bow.

Interviewer

Okay. And when did you come down here?

Pauline Smith

30 years ago.

Interviewer

And what brought you down to Canvey?

Pauline Smith

We  lived in Bow and then we moved to South London and I had a decent job then, but my husband’s work was moving to Essex, and one of our sons had bought a bungalow in Essex. So we sort of followed, and hence we were here.

Interviewer

And what job did you do when you were in London?

Pauline Smith

First of all, I started off in factories because I came from a very violent family. So we were all physically abused. And, we were sort of put in different types of homes. ‘’Go stay with that one for a week, Go stay with this one’’. My mum was a very, very violent lady. So yes, we sort of hung about in factories. We worked, we worked hard because if you didn’t bring your wages home, you got another wallop. And that’s how my mum was. If you were ill, you went to work, you know. You had to bring your wages home, and if you did not go to work and get it, my brothers went out, and stole it. Because you had to put those wages down. None of us ever drank or smoked. My brothers were villains, which sort of turned me the way I am, I visited all different prisons and it wasn’t for me, you know. They were really good brothers, but they weren’t nice people. They were villains.

Pauline Smith

Then, we came down here, and, when I was in London, I worked in factories. Although I went to a decent school, no one wanted to employ people that were hanging about. My brothers hung about with the Krays. You don’t play with them. And it sort of steered me, really, in the right direction because I didn’t want to be that. And in London, you had where they used to walk in the Catholic procession, all up the East End road. Well, I’m not really steering away from the conversation, it’s all part and parcel of it. I wanted to be special, and be one of the girls that walked. Well, my Mum never bought me shoes or anything, you know, because she was always in the pub, and that’s where our money went. So I said to my brother, ‘’why can’t I be precious, special, like these other girls?’’

Pauline Smith

He said, “you’ve got to go to church, get your sins forgiven”. Well I went to church, made my sins forgiven, and then came back out and I said, “Right, that’s it now, I can go in the procession. Well, I never had the white dress, and the white shoes. And C&A used to be the big department store years ago. So he got me this white dress.  They just done everything for me. They got me all this gear. But when I put the dress on, I was itching. I thought, “well, what’s wrong with this dress”. And as I’m walking along, the girl said, “you’ve got a label in the back of your neck”. They had been to C&A, they had stolen the dress, I couldn’t take the label out, but I walked up the East End Road and I felt so wonderful, you know. And I sort of thought then, if I was to steer away from that life, I could have a life.

Pauline Smith

And that was the beginning really. I never went back to the church. The dress got given away or whatever, but it started to make me think there’s more to life than visiting prisons. There’s more to life than running along when someone’s got cakes on their windowsill, nicking them. So, when I was at school, I learned to cook. All stupid things like that, but it steered me. And that’s how I sort of got in. Then I went,  and worked in a school, school meals. I was married then, and I didn’t have to get married or anything, it was a normal, you know, not anything. And I got the job in the schools, and my job was to provide meals for a handicapped school, that’s what they used to call it. So I couldn’t do that, I thought ‘’I’ve got to go and see what these children are like, how can they eat? What is this?’’

Pauline Smith

And it was called Tuke School in Peckham. We’d moved to South London by then, in a tower block, because that was a council place. We had no money, you know, we were both trying to work, earn our way out. I then got a job working at Tuke in the classrooms. And then I thought ‘’I like this’’. So I went to see the headmistress and I said, ‘’if I carry on providing these school meals for your children, can I come here as a volunteer during the six weeks holiday?’’ She said ‘’No, because we are not here in the six weeks holidays’’, ‘’Oh Yes, I thought you stayed’’, ‘’No.’’ It was like a normal school. So I then, because I lived in the tower block, all the kids, they were toe rags , really, You know, you’re going back years ago. They would hang about, and I thought if I get a get in touch with the libraries, I’d heard they were getting rid of these mobile libraries.

Pauline Smith

If I get them to give me one, I could run things in the school holidays for the local kids. But because we had a Tenants Association, I had to go round every single flat. I asked them to sign it, give me, I think it was a pound a month, to help pay for them to go on outings. So that’s where it all first started. And then I realised then I had a bit of a flare for this. People would give me money. So I got in touch with the Daily Mirror, they gave us hundreds. And I decided I would take these disabled kids that I’m now working with, because I’ve got a job in Tuke school as a teacher’s assistant, abroad. They had never been abroad. They had been to the seaside, but they had never crossed the water. So Daily Mirror said if I raise the money, they would pay for the trip.

Pauline Smith

I’ll just have raise the money for all the staff. So I asked all our drivers if they would work for nothing from six in the morning to about 12, one o’clock in the morning and come with me, with the ambulance to France. But I couldn’t pay them. So, once again I raised money because the transport department wanted their money for the ambulances. And it just sort of started from there, and I went to my Sid saying ‘’you know, I’ve done this’’. And it became like, he was really good. He used to say, ‘’as long as the boys are okay’’, we got two sons, ‘’As long as the boys are okay, you basically do what you love’’. So we both went and worked in football clubs in the evening, that helped us to buy our place, which freed up more time for me to do charity work.

Pauline Smith

Because prior to that you went to work to get the money. Well now I could go work because I had more time, and it was just like a circle. And my brothers, and my Mum all thought I was totally off my head. Because no one goes to work for nothing, you know? Maybe I was off my head, I don’t know. But I’ve got a kick out of it because when you’ve got them kids off the ambulance, they were all in wheelchairs. They were severely disabled. That’s why they were at the special school. You know, their little faces would light up, and course you get choked, and you think to yourself, this is what it’s all about. I always had to have money because we had bills to pay, we had a mortgage by then. And our sons were, because I’ve grown up like, round villains, they were villains, trust me. You know, the Krays, and all that. We went to school with the Krays you know, I went to Robert Montefiore and Violet, the Krays mother lived six doors along. It was just, that was the way of life in East End, you know, you’d go in a pub, there’d be a big fight, and they would think nothing of about slashing one another’s throat.

Interviewer

So you didn’t want your boys to grow up like that?

Pauline Smith

No. And fortunately, one’s a director of a big company. Another one’s got numerous houses, properties, Canvey Auto Electrics. He runs his own business, drives Bentley cars… I was a stickler for rules, and regulations. If your time is ten o’clock, you don’t come in at ten past, you come in at ten two, because by the time you get through the door, you’ll be late. I was just strict. Was I too strict? People say I was, I’ve never ever had them in bother, they’ve done well at school, they’re very respectful to us, they’ve got, one boy’s got two girls, the other one’s got two boys.

Interviewer

So there you are, you’ve got your family, you’re all settled in Peckham, you’re doing great work and you decide to move to Canvey Island. What do you then do on Canvey? Because you’ve obviously had a big life in Peckham, and you’ve been very important. How, what happens when you get here?

Pauline Smith

I still traveled back to London because that was my job then, when a job came up for Essex County. Because I worked for the London Borough of Southwark. Prior to that I worked as a Lollipop lady when my kids were little. And then, from there, I went to the Met. That didn’t suit me. I just couldn’t settle in there, in that little office job, I think only lasted about three days. It just was not me, I had to be active. So from there, the job came up in Essex, so I thought, ‘’right’’. Because I didn’t want to  break my service. I’m a stickler for it. I wanted a pension scheme, I wanted the paid holiday, that sort thing. So I went to Essex, by Bader House, which is in Basildon. And where I was a day centre officer down there, I went to there as a day center officer.

Pauline Smith

Nowadays they call them social workers, but you had a group of clients, so, I just took everything to there. We’d moved in here by then, because that’s what happened when we come to Essex, and it just went from there. I didn’t just do my day job. I used to think, ‘’these people haven’t been anywhere’’.  So I would organise trips to the hop fields, because a lot of them were Londoners, but you had to raise money for that. And, again, it just kept rolling really. And then when I was, 28 years ago, I just was putting on a bit of weight, and a client of mine who had been run over by a coach, very, very educated, top consultant. And he sat in front of me one day, he was disabled obviously, and he said,’’ you are a very sick lady’’. And I went, ‘’Ben’’ his name was, Indian. And I went, ‘’oh Ben, I’m fat’’. He went, ‘’you are a very sick lady. You’ve got something rolling up and down your throat’’. Being an idiot, I said, ‘’well, it’s my adams’ apple, isn’t it?’’ He said, ‘’Ladies don’t have them. Take yourself to a doctor’’.

Pauline Smith

I went in the office and I said, ‘’Ben’s eyes aren’t well, he’s never switched off from being a doctor’’. Anyhow, a few weeks went by and I thought, I’m going to  go to a slimming doctor someone told me about. I went in there, obviously it was in Westcliff. I’ve sat down at the desk and he said, ‘’I would like to put my hands across the front of your throat’’. I’m in the room. I thought, ‘’I don’t believe this’’. He said, ‘’are you aware that you have a throat problem?’’ I said,’’no’’. He said, ‘’your voice isn’t right,  I can’t treat you. I’m going to give you a letter. Take it straight to your doctor, as soon as possible. You’ve got a tumor in your throat.’’ So I went to the doctor, he sent me to the hospital, Rochford Hospital.

Pauline Smith

And as far as I’m concerned, there ain’t a lot wrong. It just seems like rolling up and down. No big deal. He couldn’t make time off work. And I went, I would sit down. Anyway, the doctor looked at me and he said, ‘’you’ve got a tumor in your throat’’. ‘’So, it’s either a cancer or it isn’t, what do you want me to do about it?’’ You know, it was before they had all these scans or whatever. So he said, ‘’well, I’d quite like to take it out’’. I came out of there, we didn’t have mobiles, used the phone box and I phoned, and I said ‘’Right, from today on, my working days are going to be done. It’s about quality time now.’’

Interviewer

So you are 52 at this point?

Pauline Smith

Yes. So, I went, and had the surgery, It wasn’t cancer fortunately. Within a week it all went wrong, I had to have it all cut open again and blood clots as well, and I just thought, ‘’I’m just, not going to sit and wait to die’’. Because we didn’t, still didn’t know what the future was. ‘’I’m going to  get myself involved in things’’ and that’s where it all, when I first went into the shop, so I couldn’t talk. I had to write everything down. And they used to say, ‘’oh you shouldn’t be here’’.’’ What do you expect me to do then sit in a chair? Because that’s not me.’’

Interviewer

So was that first charity shop you went to BOPH, or was that something else?

Pauline Smith

No, it was the British Heart.

Interviewer

Okay.

Pauline Smith

And I stayed there for years. It was great, it was run properly. It was perfect. But they lost their lease in Canvey, and the café next door bought it, and they expanded their business. And then he said to me one day, ‘’Would you like to come and work for me?’’ He said, ‘’I’ll pay you’’. I said, ‘’I don’t want pay, my working days are past”. Because if you are paid, you’ve got to go out at nine o’clock, you’ve got to finish at five. And I didn’t want that. I wanted some freedom to do what we wanted. So then I went to SENSE. That was a disaster. I worked there for a few years but they didn’t know how to run a business. Someone came in one day, and she said ‘’how much did you get on the piano?’’ So I looked around. I said, ‘’oh, there aren’t any kids’ pianos here’’. She went, ‘’no, we gave you a grand piano. It was picked up two Saturdays ago’’.

Pauline Smith

Well, things disappeared off the van. So I asked for a management meeting. I said, ‘’when the rags come’’, because I’ve always been on the ground, I’m always early for everything. So I’d be there for the rags and they would say take 56 bags. And they’d say, ‘’oh, yes I had 26 bags”.  And I always do a mental check, when I walk in a shop, and I would look all around the shop, and I’ll get a mental picture of what’s there. It’s what you do and then someone comes in and say ‘’have you got such and such’’, ‘’I’ll see that, Yes’’. So I said, ‘’I’m not signing for that because you’ve taken 56 bags’’. But well what we do is we sort of, there was a fiddle going on, so I couldn’t be part and parcel with that fiddle. They couldn’t stop it, for whatever reason.

Pauline Smith

And then, from there I went into Fair Haven. That didn’t work out because there was a lady there named Pauline, and I’ve still got mates there, and she decided that there was an item upstairs that had gone missing. Now, I don’t fit most average clothes, because I’m four five. Well this pair of jeans had gone missing. So she asked me if I knew where it was. Well I did know where it was, but I’m not a grass. So she said, ‘’I need you to tell me where it is’’. I said, ‘’I’m sorry I can’t do that. But if you were to run your shop and give your staff respect, they wouldn’t have to pinch the stuff. So the problem is yours’’ and she said,’’I don’t like your directness and attitude’’, because I’m very direct.

Pauline Smith

So I said, ‘’well if you ask me a question, you’ll get an answer. But I’m not a grass’’. Because the way I was brought up, living and growing up with thieves, you are not a grass, you wouldn’t survive. So that was it. I said I would leave, and then I walked across the road into Joan’s shop. And I said to Joan, because what I’ve done is I went to a solicitor, and I got all letters, because she said, ‘’I think you’ve stolen it’’. You won’t tell me where it’s gone. I think you’ve stolen it’’. So I went to a solicitor and I had all letters written out, and I took them around all the shops, because I’ve got a grandson who’s a kind of toastmaster and he wanted to get into the police. I cannot have anything stopping his career. But because of my background, if a packet of Jaffa Cakes went missing, you’ve nicked them because you come from a family of thieves, and that’s what follows you. I mean Karen, if you talk to Karen, she will say every penny I deal with is signed. If I go and get a bottle of milk, I don’t just get the receipt, I’ll sign it, date it, time it because I have taken money out of the till and she says, ‘’I can trust you 100%’’.

Interviewer

So there you are, you’ve crossed over the road and you’ve joined BOPH. In their charity shop. So what happens in a charity shop for BOPH? What is it like?

Pauline Smith

The local public will bring items in, and then out into the back room they’re usually left, and then members of staff will sort through that stuff, and then we have rags, which is not a pop at the public, really. It’s just that some things are not suitable to be sold. They might be scruffy, they might be ripped. They’re just not suitable. So we will sort it out. If you’ve got a Primark item for instance, that’s cheap, and cheerful, you would only mark it cheap. But when you look at the garment, you’re supposed to be looking, has it got buttons on the shirt, has it got sweaty marks under the armpit.  If they have, it might not actually be rags but it’s not fit to be sold. So you rag it. So you go through a processing thing, and then if it is the fifth of March, you will put week 16 on it, and then you will put the price, the size ideally, some things you can’t.

So you just put small, medium or large, then it’s hung out on rails. And then when the rails out there in the shop go down, you go back to the back and you can replenish from the back of the shop.  Shoes, you look for, handbags, all sorts of things. Jewelry usually costume, all sorts of things. So you’re processing it through, and then later on somebody else will look ‘’that’s been out there three weeks’’ because where you put the week on, you can now see that it bit. So that gets rotated. Ideally it shouldn’t be ragged. You put it on a sale rail to give it another opportunity to be sold. Then if it isn’t sold in a week, then it gets ragged. And when we’ve had other disasters like, was it the Turkish floods?

Interviewer

Quite probably.

Pauline Smith

Other shops set up in them. So I asked Joan,’’look, we have got a load of stuff here, far too much, can we give it to them? You know there, but for the grace of God.  I’m not religious but that could be us. Can I?’’ And she said ‘’yes’’. The staff was in uproar. And I thought, ‘’well sorry, I’m going to do it. What can I do tonight’’? So I done it. I run it by Karen and she just said ‘’just do what you like’’. Well, people being a bit thick, they will give them curtains. There’s been a disaster. You’ve got nowhere to live, what do you want a  set of curtains for? You know? But because of the way I speak and am, ‘’well that’s rather rude’’

I said to these blokes’’, and I went, ‘’no, you haven’t got anywhere to live. Why would you want a set a curtains?’’

Interviewer

So there you are, you’ve started volunteering at BOPH and you are still there. What keeps you at BOPH?

Pauline Smith

The girls I work with. I’m not that interested in BOPH. That might sound selfish, but it’s true. Because BOPH is not hard up. They’ve got a lot of money and a lot of people give them money. If you write to Mark and Spencer’s now, they don’t even answer. And Morrison’s on the island are the only people that will give you a 20 pound voucher. People don’t do it anymore.. Money unfortunately is tight. So, I’m always going to leave, I think right, when I get the next problem. Because I’ve had two knees, one hip, a rod in me back. Screws, tumors. Both hands have been replaced and both shoulders. So I’ve got one hip to go and then everything’s been replaced.

Interviewer

There’s a bit of the bionic woman aren’t you?

Pauline Smith

Yes, that’s what they got. So each time I found, if I don’t get over this, but I’m back to work on crutches within weeks, I just don’t lay down, and that is what keeps you going.

Interviewer

So you, you, you’ve been doing BOPH for years. So you mentioned Lady McAdden. How did you get involved with them?

Pauline Smith

Unfortunately my son’s, my youngest son’s wife went for a routine mammogram, and it was cancer. That was just as COVID started. She was a week or two later it got started. But in January I was walking, I go to the hairdressers every week, and I was walking around from the hairdressers and there’s this new shop on the corner, and it’s empty, and it’s got big notice, Lady McAdden opening, and I thought ‘’I’ve got to volunteer, because its breast cancer’’. So I stuck a note through the door because it was open. And then I kept going back, and I see people in there, and I went in and I said, look, I’ll be perfectly honest this with you, this is why I’m here, but i still will be doing both. I’ve done 28 years in charity shops. If you’re interested let me know. She said fill this form in, give me references.

Pauline Smith

So I put down British Heart and Karen said ‘’I’m reluctant to do this because you’ll leave BOPH’’. I went, ‘’no, I’ll do that because of our Lisa’’. Fortunately she’s still alive and she’s coming up to her fifth year. So that’s how I started. And it is run 100% perfect. We got safes. It’s all done properly. You get like a term of contract and whatever. I then asked BOPH to do it all, because it would be better. So now they’ve introduced it.

Interviewer

So there we are. 28 years ago you decided you wanted your life to be different. You wanted to make a difference. Here you are. You’ve just had your 80th birthday. How do you feel that’s gone? Do you feel it has been different? As you look back over that 28 years?

Pauline Smith

Yes, because when I see people that have retired, fortunately I’m lucky I paid into private pensions so I’m not hard up.  So when I’m in the shop, although I’m doing things, I’m not scrubbing, cooking, cleaning because I couldn’t lift up saucepans. But in the shop I can still do those things. Different things.

Interview

You can stand behind the till, you can do whatever.

Pauline Smith

That’s right. Yes. So it doesn’t affect me. But life goes on. It’s what you make of it. And if I wasn’t in BOPH or any of the other charity shops, what would I be doing? I’d be sitting about, you’ve got no reason.. You’ve got no reason to get washed, and dressed because you’re not going anywhere. You could stay in your night dress if you wanted to. And I know people that do. Although people used to say to me, ‘’why don’t you use walking frame?” Why?’’ Because of my background in disabled skills. I used to say “the word disabled has got abled in it. And I’ll take that bit”.

Pauline Smith

And I do think it keeps you mentally aware by being with people.

Interviewer

Absolutely. Now I’ve thoroughly enjoyed talking to you, and you’ve told us some really good stuff, and it’s been really interesting. When you knew I was coming to see you today, is there anything you wanted to tell me that you haven’t had the chance to say yet?

Pauline Smith

No, not really.

Interviewer

Well, could I say thank you ever so much and thoroughly enjoyed talking to you.